Newbie questions

[Ellena]

I am fairly new to this site and I have a few questions - especially about posts directed to Andrea Bocelli.

First, what is the best way for us to address him? I don't know anything about Italian culture and wouldn't want to appear too formal or too familiar.

Secondly, how does Andrea Bocelli browse the site. Does he use an audio reader? If so, will it only work for Italian?

My last question is which is better - good English or bad Italian? Maybe a dumb question. I am trying to learn Italian like so many members of this site. Although Andrea Bocelli (I will use his full name until I find out the proper appelation) continually apologizes for his English I find it perfectly understandable. If I could reach that level of proficiency in Italian I would be thrilled.

Since this an Italian-based site dedicated to an Italian artist I think it would be nice for the members to try to communicate in Italian, if possible. On the other hand there are many misunderstandings among people communicating through this medium using a shared native language. I wonder if people trying to communicate via this medium in a language with which they are not fluent would increase the level of misunderstanding. Thus my question.

I hope someone can help me.

Thank you for reading this.

Ellena

[maruscatoscana]

I am fairly new to this site and I have a few questions - especially about posts directed to Andrea Bocelli.

Secondly, how does Andrea Bocelli browse the site. Does he use an audio reader? If so, will it only work for Italian?

Dear Ellena

I'm glad you post this, I'm fairly new myself. Even though I'm italian, I found that most fans here at this forum communicate in English, but of course lots of them are learning Italian. And that is very nice of them. I was wondering myself of some of the questions you have post here. I hope somebody knows.

Ciao
Marusca

[westsiderny]

As I understand, this is a web site based in Italy but I couldn't find anywhere a rule that said it should be only for Italian speaking fans. Everyone can post in the language more comfortable to them. It is up to us to try to understand and communicate to each other. Sometimes, even speaking the same language, there are misunderstandings. So, newbie, as far as I am concerned, you can write in any language and if I want to read and understand your post in a different language than mine, I will use Google or any other translation engine. Now, regarding how to address Andrea, I don't think he cares if you call him Signor, or Mr. or just Andrea... Just don't call him: 'hey you'! or 'how're you doing buddy?... I think... maybe he wouldn't care either... he is so unique... don't you love him?... To me, he is "The Tenor of the World" !

[Gloria M]

Secondly, how does Andrea Bocelli browse the site. Does he use an audio reader? If so, will it only work for Italian?

Hi Ellena, and welcome! I don't know anything about audio reader, so I can't help you with that. But here links to a couple of photos of Andrea, right here on this website, working at his computer.

Andrea writing his first message at his new official forum in November 2003

http://lnx.andreabocelli.org/photo/cpg1 ... =14&pos=16

Andrea and his lap top

http://lnx.andreabocelli.org/photo/cpg1 ... =1&pos=-86

Enjoy!

--Gloria M

[DueBaci]

Hi ! and Benvenuto !

interesting questions. I hope Renate will give us more definitive answers. (she's one of the moderators here)

I do know that he uses a screenreader.. but, I don't know what kind.

(there are types that have several language interfaces, and my guess would be that he uses one of those.. but, I can't say for sure)

and I think he's mentioned on this website that Veronica reads email to him.

You're right about the italian culture.. because they have a whole separate set of verb tenses for formal... and I believe that one is supposed to address someone you don't know with the formal... until they themselves give you permission to use the familiar. ( Mr. Bocelli even did that during a TV interview once... he used the formal to address the interviewer.. and the interviewer asked him to address him with the *tu*. )
the equivalent of addressing someone by calling them Mr. or Mrs. or Ms... and letting them ask you to please call them by their first name.

I don't think that one can make an error by showing too much respect.

but, if I'm over here writing a post to you guys about him ... or talking to my friends... I know I've used Andrea. or AB
more familiar.. maybe I should also be more formal in those instances too. ( and during a concert ?... I know I've yelled out his first name.. or even just his last name... but, I know I didn't yell "Mr. Bocelli !!" )

Renate ? What are your thoughts ?

Maybe we could just ask him ?

Signor Bocelli ? Possiamo fare una domanda per cortesia ?
How do you wish to be addressed ?

[Shirl]

Hello from a newbie

I became a fan of Andrea Bocelli the moment I saw him on American idol which was shown here in the USA last week. From there, I bought his Amore CD and his autobiography. I've been spending more than just a little time doing online research for information, articles, and especially photos. Listening to Amore reduces me to tears, his voice is just so beautiful. And not to get too personal....IMHO, he is such a beautiful person both inside and out.

I do have a few questions. (1) - Why do I have to keep logging in each time I want to go to a different forum topic or area or page on this website? Clicking on "keep me logged in" is no help whatsoever.

(2) - Is there a fan club one can join, to get photos or newsletters (in real time, not online)?

(3) - Do members of this board get special advantages with regards to better seats at concerts?

(4) - And just so I have it right, is the following phonetic spelling the proper way to pronounce his name:

on-DRAY-ah boe-CHELL-i

if not.....please advise

Thank you to all and any who respond to my first post

~Shirl

[DueBaci]

Hi Shirl !

if I may, I shall answer the newsletter question.

go to http://www.andreabocelli.org and click on *News and Concerts*.

you will see a place to put your email address where it says *subscribe to Andrea's newsletter* in the upper right hand corner of your screen.

[Lelly]

Hmm - how to address him. It's like old question, what do you give the person who has everything? If I were face to face with him I would be completely dumbfounded, but on the OS he's AB OFT more often that not, and I don't think he would mind. He knows we all love him to bits and I'm sure he's quite happy with a bit of informality. However, Veronica might object to Hi Sexy!!

[annacelli]

[quote="Shirl"]

And just so I have it right, is the following phonetic spelling the proper way to pronounce his name:

on-DRAY-ah boe-CHELL-i

if not.....please advise

A sounds like [a] in the word want
N
D
R
E sounds like the [a] in the word name
A sounds like [y] in the word year and the [a] in the word yaahoo

B
O sounds loke the [o] in the word dog
C sounds like the [ch] in the word chair
E sounds like the [e] in the word best
L
L
I sounds like the [ea] in the word dear

[Lelly]

Very difficult. The only bit that I can see needs changing is the first A in Andrea - it should be a as in animal. Hope this helps - therefore an-DRAY-ah boe-CHELL-i. I'm not too sure about the boe in Bocelli - I think its more a bo - chelli, as in bottle. Perhaps more to do with accents than actual phonetics. Welcome to the wonderful world of a wonderful man - you'll never be lonely again!

[annacelli]

The only bit that I can see needs changing is the first A in Andrea - it should be a as in animal.

Listening the way Andrea is announced on tv and radio in Dutch, German and Italian as well, the A sounds more like the [a] in want than like the [a] in animal.

But it really doesn't matter that much: A pronounced as [a] in want will be understood the same way as [a] in animal.

[Baroque1685]

I hope it is okay with Andrea to call him by his first name on his forum--it seems as if, even for those of us who have never actually met him, seem to know him a little too well to simply say his name formally. When speaking of Andrea to anyone other than close friends I say Maestro Bocelli or Signor Bocelli. I have no idea what I would say or how I would address him if ever get to meet him!--but why worry with it? When the moment comes …aaaah. Anyway, I tend to pronounce Andrea's name more with the a in "father" than in "want" or "animal," maybe it's 'cus I'm just a S'uthe'ner that pronounces "want" as "wunt" and "animal" is too strong, like "cat." I pronounce the "o" of Bocelli somewhere between soft and hard, probably with undue emphasis trying to correct those who come closer to saying "Borshehllee" than anything else , they don't mean it rudely but I cringe!!! Sometimes I'll say, "there's no 'r' in there, and it's more of a 'ch' than 'sh'." If I'm wrong somebody correct me please!!! I noticed the pronunciation of his name by the interviewer in Che Tempo Che Fa--and this is the way I say Andrea's name most closely.
Baroque

[anna62]

You could hear Andrea himself on the CD "viaggio italiano" ( messaggio Bocelli) . In fact , he pronounces the "c" as "sh" , as they all say in Tuscany !

[Francesca]

Je ne pensais pas que prononcer Andrea Bocelli posait autant de problème

Pour nous il suffit de ne pas dire "an" mais "ane" et éviter de prononcer le "ce" en disant "tché", comme certains le croient nécessaire, simplement "ché"
Les Italiens ont une façon très chantante de dire Bochèlllli , en mettant l'accent tonique sur "cel".
En effet il suffit d'écouter Andrea se présenter : "Salve sono Andrea Bocelli" dans "viaggio italiano".

[DueBaci]

The only bit that I can see needs changing is the first A in Andrea - it should be a as in animal.

Listening the way Andrea is announced on tv and radio in Dutch, German and Italian as well, the A sounds more like the [a] in want than like the [a] in animal.

But it really doesn't matter that much: A pronounced as [a] in want will be understood the same way as [a] in animal.

my 2 cents.. for what it's worth...

A as in Ah... when saying Andrea...

and please rrrroll that r if you are able !

[Baroque1685]

I've also noticed in Andrea's singing the softness of "ce" and "ci" pronunciation, so I was wrong there--will work on softening the "ch" sound. Thankfully, I've never said it so hard as "tch" as in "match"--so maybe it won't be that hard. More like in between "ch" and "sh"?
Baroque

[Annalisa]

I've also noticed in Andrea's singing the softness of "ce" and "ci" pronunciation, so I was wrong there--will work on softening the "ch" sound. Thankfully, I've never said it so hard as "tch" as in "match"--so maybe it won't be that hard. More like in between "ch" and "sh"?
Baroque

In Italian, practically everything is pronounced as it is spelled, except the "ce" and "ci" sounds which are pronounced as if there were an "h' in between the two letters. On the other hand, the Italian word "che" is pronounced without the "h" sound.

I've read that because of the lack of silent letters and tricky letter combinations, there is very little dyslexia among Italians. Also, my first Italian professor, who is from Milano, said that they don't have spelling bees because it would be too easy.

[carolyn]

You have all been dissecting the pronunciation from interesting viewpoints. When I hear Andrea say his name or another words similar to that one, he always pronounces the 'A' like the a in 'awe' or awning. And in english, when he is talking and says the work animal he also uses that prounciation. awn-i-mawl. The fact that he uses that sound in english tell me it is the most natural for him in Italian as well.

[Baroque1685]

In Italian, practically everything is pronounced as it is spelled, except the "ce" and "ci" sounds which are pronounced as if there were an "h' in between the two letters. On the other hand, the Italian word "che" is pronounced without the "h" sound.

I've read that because of the lack of silent letters and tricky letter combinations, there is very little dyslexia among Italians. Also, my first Italian professor, who is from Milano, said that they don't have spelling bees because it would be too easy.

I have been studying Italian and get what you're saying. "Ci" and "ce" are pronounced like the English "chee" and "cheh" , but I was noticing how very softly Andrea always pronounces the ce's and ci's--so much closer to "sh" than "tch"--not like the pronunciation guide in my Italian textbook! C with a, o or u is always pronouned k. The Italian "ch" and "gh" are always "k" and and hard "g" no matter what the following letter is. I easily get so immersed in Italian that it is hard to pull out enough to talk to my folks! I'm no where near fluent, but once my mind starts clicking I can't get out of the mode; forget reading before bed unless it's something I've printed out in Italian! That is very neat about the low dyslexia rate and the spelling bees. With English, there's the U. S. spelling and the U. K. spelling--which can get confusing and silly for Americans who favour certain British spellings, LOL.
And Carolyn, that is exactly the same sound I was getting at in "father" when you mention Andrea saying a as in awe! yipee!!! you chose a much bvetter word for the example, though
I read somewhere that English has 48 different phonetic sounds and Japanese 26...don't get that completely but German had something like 46? Have you ever looked at letter frquency charts for different languages? Simon Singh's "The Code Book" is interesting, but I read that a couple years ago. Another topic, I'm a mess.
It is fun to talk about how we pronounce Andrea's name! and Italian words.
Baroque

Simon Singh's Letter Frequency Analysis Chart

[Annalisa]

Softening the "ch" sound to "sh" is characteristic of the Tuscan dialect, not Italian in general. I can handle that but - and this is according to my second Italian professor (professoressa really) - in Sicily the people use the passato remoto tense on a regular basis where in the rest of Italy the passato or imperfetto would be used. I believe that would be way beyond my speaking ability.

[Baroque1685]

Annalisa,
Now, I seriously have NO IDEA what you are talking about! I can make a guess but I'll likely get it wrong. The book I'm learning from, "Italian Made Simple" is one that I doubt anyway because it prefaces with saying, "we don't worry about grammar because most people don't like that part and drop the study altogether" or that is the idea it seemed to convey, and well, I'm one who likes playing with grammar a little bit, so I've got a growing vocabulary and barely any idea of how I'm supposed to put it together. I need to persevere until I get somewhere though. I think a trip to the library is soon, and from there I'll be searching the language isle! And for "The Music of Silence", can you believe where they put it? in the fiction section. I mean, I know Andrea changed his own name in the book, but I don't think that makes his work a piece of fiction, MAI! Well, as for learning Italian, it may be kind-of like math; too many bad textbooks make you think you hate the subject then you finally get a good one, and you love it. I don't want my love for Italian to be ruined--and if I keep reading a parallel Bible and listening to Andrea, no matter how incomprehensible the textbooks, I think it will never fade! I'm sure what you said will come clear later.
Baroque

[patriciabutler]

I am also trying to learn a little Italian and found a BBC learning package on the internet. However the first greeting it teaches is Ciao Bello - much as I think Signore Bocelli is handsome - it is probably not quite appropriate for a first meeting!? I think the best way to learn a language is to live it - perhaps we could all have a mass fan club visit to Tuscany - what an invasion that would be! Does Andrea have shares in the tourism and language school industry do you think ? - he must have increased their business a thousand fold.

[Annalisa]

Annalisa,
Now, I seriously have NO IDEA what you are talking about! I can make a guess but I'll likely get it wrong. The book I'm learning from, "Italian Made Simple" is one that I doubt anyway because it prefaces with saying, "we don't worry about grammar because most people don't like that part and drop the study altogether" or that is the idea it seemed to convey, and well, I'm one who likes playing with grammar a little bit, so I've got a growing vocabulary and barely any idea of how I'm supposed to put it together. I need to persevere until I get somewhere though. I think a trip to the library is soon, and from there I'll be searching the language isle! And for "The Music of Silence", can you believe where they put it? in the fiction section. I mean, I know Andrea changed his own name in the book, but I don't think that makes his work a piece of fiction, MAI! Well, as for learning Italian, it may be kind-of like math; too many bad textbooks make you think you hate the subject then you finally get a good one, and you love it. I don't want my love for Italian to be ruined--and if I keep reading a parallel Bible and listening to Andrea, no matter how incomprehensible the textbooks, I think it will never fade! I'm sure what you said will come clear later.
Baroque

I started out the same way - just learning vocabulary until I finally got to the point that I was asking "Okay, I know all these words. Now what do I do with them?" I realized that, for me, learning grammar was going to be necessary so I audited classes a nearby university for a couple of years.

I'm sorry if I confused you talking about verb tenses. I thought if you were learning Italian, it would be something you'd be familiar with. Basically, the passato is the past tense used for a completed action, and the imperfetto is the past tense used for a continuing or incompleted action. The passato remoto is way back in the past and you'll probably never need to use it. Or hardly ever.

[Baroque1685]

Annalisa,
There's no need to be sorry that you told me that about the grammar. I was always taught that even if something is over your head, learn it anyway because eventually it will be like the rope necessary to tie a bridge down. Thanks for your explanation of the terms. I could connect them somewhat to ones I'm familiar with in English but you clarify it beautifully. I finally went to the library and checked out their only two books on Italian, both of which I'm working through. One even says it's working you towards the Tuscan pronunciation, which is the one I'm working the most in. Your translations of Andrea's songs on ABMusica are wonderful; I have learned a good bit just from that!
One funny thing. I sent the lyrics of Les Feuilles Mortes to a friend who knows French--and she sent me the translation right after yours had been posted! I didn't know that you knew French until then either.

I am also trying to learn a little Italian and found a BBC learning package on the internet. However the first greeting it teaches is Ciao Bello - much as I think Signore Bocelli is handsome - it is probably not quite appropriate for a first meeting!? I think the best way to learn a language is to live it - perhaps we could all have a mass fan club visit to Tuscany - what an invasion that would be! Does Andrea have shares in the tourism and language school industry do you think ? - he must have increased their business a thousand fold.

As for the idea of crashing and having a fan-meet in Tuscany, we can dream can't we? I'm certain you are not wanting to say "Hello beautiful!" to Andrea, LOL, even though he is truely handsome. One way to live in Italian is to think it as much as possible--write your to-do and grocery lists in Italian as much as you can. I wonder how many English speakers are learning Italian simply because of Andrea?
Baroque

[Sheilla]

Hi I'm Sheilla I also have not been long in this site. I have been calling him by his first name Andrea or both, I really do not think he would mind he is that kind of man. he is hardly going to tell you off, he is glad I think to have his fans there however they come, or call him

I hope that you will still be his friend as well as a fan.....