Myspace

[sofia]

I was also a little bit surprised about this My Space-thing and didn't find it really suitable in the Bocelli-world.
Still.I think that Max ment it well and he wanted to give us some new items in quiet periods.
Maybe he didn't know himself how things were supposed to evoluate.
As someone pointed out here there have been some changes made by now and so this is a positive way of evolution.
Myself I am not going to surf anymore an my-space,it's not my cup of tea,and I have very difficult to believe that Andrea just had locked in every time I visited My Space,whilst he doesn't always have the time to come over and read his own forum-which I can plainly understand for such a busy man.
But then everyone has to decide for theirselves if they are My Space-fans or not.But I am certain that the original idea was one with good intentions.

[DueBaci]

I am saying that what appears on the webmaster - here - ballanti's own site is not very nice. All of this should not be connected with Andrea which a link on Andrea's website does. It is very cheapening. Why do people want to advertise themselves and invite strangers into their lives? If somebody is doing this for Andrea - which I think must be the case - they should stop and get these links off the official site. I have not been to ballanti's site for a while so maybe these offensive things are gone but what I saw was not classy but cheap, picturing women as if selling something.

... from what I can tell.. a lot of those *sexy* women pics on Ballanti's MySpace are actually singers. Go ahead and click on their pic, or type their name into Mr. Google.. and you will find that they are ligit singers in the music biz. Not porn stars as you may think.

... what I have noticed for a number of years now, is that the sexier the singer .. the more songs they sell. Maybe a sad fact, but true.
I have no problem with women looking sexy. Even in country music, the trend seems to be also going that way. It didn't used to be. Even country western singers try to look sexier.

there are some very ligit musicians that have a space on MySpace. example, Mark O'Connor. Mark even invites you to visit his MySpace address on his official website. THESE ARE REAL, SUCCESSFUL musicians that have spaces on MySpace. Andrea should too, if he wishes to.

Mark O'Connor's official website: (he is an INCREDIBLE violinist !)
http://www.markoconnor.com/

Mark O'Connor's MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/composermarkoconnor

Just as in the real world, there are going to be people over there that *don't do the right thing* in other peoples eyes. I think if you know that, you can avoid the creeps and enjoy the good stuff.

[Maris]

What was on that site was not glamour or publicity shots - but explicit and degrading. It is not confusing or a matter of taste and it has now gone.
Women should speak up aboutt these things. Yes, more women are resorting to meat marketing, defining themselves as looks only. Some of this is unavoidable but shots of genitalia and suggestive positions are beyond acceptable. never say to each his own in these case especially when link to this type of forum. If it's a back room of a video store - I'm the first one to say don't go there but this was different.

[DueBaci]

What was on that site was not glamour or publicity shots - but explicit and degrading. It is not confusing or a matter of taste and it has now gone.
Women should speak up aboutt these things. Yes, more women are resorting to meat marketing, defining themselves as looks only. Some of this is unavoidable but shots of genitalia and suggestive positions are beyond acceptable. never say to each his own in these case especially when link to this type of forum. If it's a back room of a video store - I'm the first one to say don't go there but this was different.

Ok. well then that's a good thing. The offensive stuff is now gone.

someone is monitoring it obviously. That is also a good thing.

[westsiderny]

... from what I can tell.. a lot of those *sexy* women pics on Ballanti's MySpace are actually singers. Go ahead and click on their pic, or type their name into Mr. Google.. and you will find that they are ligit singers in the music biz. Not porn stars as you may think.

Maybe this article will help some readers to understand why the women in Ballanti's MySpace are dressed (or undressed)... Poor things wouldn't have the opportunity to be included if they looked differently...

"Italy has had a long history of feminism," says Parati, who has studied Italian culture and written books on gender issues. "It is different from Anglo-American feminism [and] based not on a search for equality but rather on putting an emphasis on difference%u2026 Joining a man%u2019s world may be practical, but does not solve the fact that you end up trapped in a system that can contain and invalidate the difference that women's otherness embodies."

Maybe nudity, chauvinism and a lack of professional attainment are different parts of the same enduring Italian image: the mamma rules the house but is confined to the kitchen, rolling out ravioli while her daughters, with little expected of them professionally, seek success through fame and beauty.

Preti, the student who recently moved to London, worries about a lack of variety in role models for Italian teenagers. She says: "Young girls envy showgirls, they link beauty with success"Many young women still have the example of their mothers who don't work." In the UK, meanwhile: "Young girls are much more determined, they are career-minded. They're killing each other, they have dreams."

Women in Italy, she believes, are held back not by chauvinism but by rules and customs that inhibit their participation in work. Mothers complain of a lack of nurseries and kindergartens. Schools for older pupils finish at lunch time. The children have to be collected, they have to be fed, they have to be taken to afternoon activities. "A woman will never earn as much as she will pay a babysitter," Frati Gucci says.

Read more about "Naked Ambition"...

[Maris]

Thank you Westsider for that very interesting article. In regard to women's place in Italian society, it does appear that Italy is a third world country.
While Italian stallions may seduce us with their good looks, sexy music and sweet talk, it seems they do not view women as their equals and so must make lousy husbands.

I think many American - and other non-Italian women - looking at the women pictured on Ballanti's site felt offended by this "piece of meat" presentation. Thankfully, the worst has disappeared. How odd - and equally distasteful - it would appear if we had access on this site to men displayed in a similar manner, or if Andrea would market himself like this. I am quite sure he would feel a complete loss of dignity. By imagining the opposite, we can actually see how women are exploited.

Our comments will have little effect on the world. They have not even drawn a comment or an apology from this site administrator but nevertheless, we all must do our small part to eradicate this type of degrading exploitation.

[DueBaci]

Maris. Why are you beating a dead horse ?

the offensive material is gone from Ballanti's MySpace. Ballanti did not put it there. He took it off. For this you think he should apologize ?

I'm sorry that you generalize the whole italian population as treating women in the same manner.

I've seen many italian loving, faithful, loyal, doting husbands.. and I've seen someone beat the crap out of their girlfriend with my own eyes.

It happens in every nationality I'm afraid. Even the French. Even Americans.

[Veronica. O]

I totally agree with DueBAci. Men beating upi on their wives is not an Italian thing. i'm sure you've heard f men beating teir wives in the U. S or Britain on the news. I agree that some(not all, just like in other parts of the world) disrespect their wives. Italians are not monsters and it souds like you think so. Correct me if you must, but either you don't like iTalian policies or the people. It has to be one or the other or none becuase I may be wrong but it certainly coes across as that.

[carolina1954]

While Italian stallions may seduce us with their good looks, sexy music and sweet talk, it seems they do not view women as their equals and so must make lousy husbands.

Maris, we were taking about the pornographic element in Myspace and you suddenly turn it into a condemnation of all Italian men !

I think you'll find Italian women are not treated as equals in some parts but as far superior in others and are very much loved and respected by their men and are the boss at home.

[Maris]

I never said a thing about Italian men beatnig up on their wives! Where does that come from?! My comments were based on the article posted by Westsider. Did you read it? Italian women in society as a whole, do not have have the social status and respect that we, as American women, come to regard as normal. This is a much larger and more serious problem than an individual problem of domestic abuse which you seem to think I'm talking about. Men born of this culture must indeed make lousy husbands - if they buy it. I am sure some don't but the generalizations must arise from somewhere don't you think?

[Maris]

Correct me if you must, but either you don't like iTalian policies or the people. It has to be one or the other or none becuase I may be wrong but it certainly coes across as that.

I must correct you because you are completely wrong and I AM Italian but I a Italian American. When traveling Italy, I do sense the truth of the articvle and have seen disgusting things - Bip T.V. middle of the day - disgusting advertisements etc. and sense the way women present themselses as tacky and vulgar - advertising soap by massaging naked breasts. They are accepted to be used as objects and selling gimmicks. I think massagsing naked breast in US doesn't go - maybe men should maggase their stuff for us. I wonder if that would be on T.V.

[Tesora]

Different cultures view things differently, Maris. If the women in Europe want to change things, I'm sure they are quite capable of doing so themselves.

It's funny how puritanical some Americans are about Bip (publicly, anyway). I'm sure that the Europeans could not grasp why on earth your President was subject to impeachment proceedings over Bip.

I'm not picking on Americans, but just pointing out that cultural perceptions and values are different and we ought not to be judgmental of other cultures.

Having travelled in Italy, I am well aware that the treatment of women there is different from what we experience in North America, generally speaking, but that doesn't make it bad. Maybe the women there enjoy the adoration they get from their men and, in turn, do their best to attract that adoration.

Your specific concern has been addressed, and perhaps this topic should be closed.

[Tesora]

Seems I got "bipped". Well, you get the idea anyway.

[Maris]

What do others think of the article? I don't think it is about adoration/ appreciation. I think it was about respect/equality and the former, without the later is hollow. I thought the article was very insightful and thought provoking. If you think these thoughts should be provoked in private - well, okay - but women need to think about these things, no?

[carolina1954]

In Italy there seem to be 2 types of women, the motherly type, dressed plainly and simply and the high fashion type who is not afraid to display her wares. Neither type strike me in any way as subservient and if they objected to being objects, they would not consent to it.

[Tesora]

Do you ever watch nature documentaries? You've probably seen how animals and birds display their colours, or make special sounds, or strut about when they are looking for a mate (usually, it's the males doing that).

I just think it's basic instinct that women put on a bit of a display to attract men. Maybe in Italy it is done in a more explicit sort of way, and probably the argument can be made that the "display" can be taken too far down that slippery slope toward the realm of objectively offensive; but, it is not something that can easily be done away with. Even if women are "equal", they/we are still subject to our basic biological instincts.

It's an interesting debate, Maris, and I don't have a problem with having it. It just probably doesn't belong here.

[westsiderny]

No need to get into an argument here. As far as I know, there is a lot of truth in the article and if you are interested, I could recommend this BLOG if you wish to continue to discuss the topic. It is moderated but you can even say the "V" word now that you are free to do so. Also, go to the archives and you will find topics like how the Italian men feel about their women (you will be surprised) and also, the 'problems' these 'handsome' and 'sexy' guys have these days in relation to women and viceversa. Very interesting. Sometimes I participate, even that I write in English but, nevertheless, I get responses. You can express your feelings openly... And the website that has this blog is a decent one. Have fun.!

P.S. When you open the page, scroll down until you find the word 'parliamone'. This is good for practicing your Italian... and learn how Italians feel about certain issues...

[syl]

What do others think of the article? I don't think it is about adoration/ appreciation. I think it was about respect/equality and the former, without the later is hollow. I thought the article was very insightful and thought provoking. If you think these thoughts should be provoked in private - well, okay - but women need to think about these things, no?

I agree with you completely. The article is very interesting.It clearly says that advertisements showing partially clothed women which are ho hum in Italy receive huge protests from women in other countries, even European countries. It also shows that the lack of services to working women makes running a 2 adult both working household nearly impossible. Italians have a very different view of a womans role and Italian women seem to be sleeping rather than objecting to the narrow roles to which they have been assigned. The article was in my view very well written.

[westsiderny]

Once there was a poll in Italy about what American women would prefer: A bunch of nice clothes or a night spent with a handsome Italian man. The results were: Clothes! And beautiful ones!. You can imagine the reaction and the posts on that blog!... we were even called 'a bunch of lesbians"!

Not long ago, there was another topic about Italian men not being as sexy and perfect lovers as we women around the world think. Their excuse was that it was true in many cases because women are too aggressive these days and they cannot perform their 'duties' properly out of stress... tension... worried about failing... the works. At least they are honest.

I think everything is relative. I have a couple of female Venetian friends that are as aggressive and career oriented as any woman in New York City. And they like men, but not Italians... So, we can't generalize...

Whoops! I have the feeling that this post will be deleted...

[carolina1954]

[quote="syl Italians have a very different view of a womans role and Italian women seem to be sleeping rather than objecting to the narrow roles to which they have been assigned. [/quote]

Nail on the head ! Different view, and sleeping rather than objecting.
They are obvously quite happy with the "narrow roles".

Whose view of a woman's role is the correct one ?

[Maris]

Nail on the head ! Different view, and sleeping rather than objecting.
They are obvously quite happy with the "narrow roles".

Whose view of a woman's role is the correct one ?

It is not obvious to me. "Narrow roles" mean lack of options. The "correct" role must be one of respect and equality. What are the choices in Italy, big fat Mama with the pasta or being a piece of meat. How about another choice - a girl who enjoys her features and presents them well but wishes to be regard for her acheivements and character.

Why is it so necessary to make things "okay" regarding the status of Italian women - or women anywhere for that matter. Maybe things are NOT okay when women do not have choices, are subject to degrading publicity and/or dismissed outright as a man's equal in areas that have nothing to do with gender - like business, science, politics, education etc. Are you going to raise your daughter to put-up and shut-up, think only about looking good. I hope not.

I wish I could participate on that blog but my Italian is not good. It is good to have a place to talk freely without someone saying shush shush.
OF COURSE, we all know that all these negative stereotypes of Italian men, as well founded as they may be, have nothing to do with Andrea, right girls? He writes about in his book about one of his girlfriends who was running around on him and acting as a @#&*%@#! he would not say the word and "shuddered" to think if it. Well, I'm sure he would have plenty of opportunity to shudder if he were "in the know".

I think British and French women are pretty liberated, maybe so liberated that they cannot even relate to the Italians. I've lived with Italian men all my life. Most of them are not prizes but they can be managed. They are better to look at than live with. There IS one ethnic group that is, IMHO, no fail - low alcohoism and drug use, low divorce rate, low infideity, educated, intelligent, great providers, child center and regard women as equal. Maybe not so good looking but after you life with this kind of person, they get better looking all the time. I will not name this group because it would create an uproar of controversy but for me, I have had good luck. I wish the same for you.

[Maris]

And one more thing - I would also take the clothes

[syl]

Whose view of a woman's role is the correct one ?

A good question Carolina. I think that women in each country must carve out for themselves the role that they wish to achieve. I do not think that "outsiders" can do this for them. If they are blocked by tradition or sanctions then they must fight for their ideals. I do not see anything like this happening in Italy. Can we then assume that they are happy or maybe just brainwashed? Perhaps Italian women should ponder that famous quote "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle."

[carolina1954]

We tend to view these things from our own perspective and usually find it difficult to understand how someone can put up with what we perceive as wrong.
I still think they are educated and confident enough to complain if they feel they are being degraded and if they don't then perhaps they don't feel they are ?

Perhaps it is best that we agree to differ on this matter

[Tesora]

Maybe things are NOT okay when women do not have choices, are subject to degrading publicity and/or dismissed outright as a man's equal in areas that have nothing to do with gender - like business, science, politics, education etc.

I'm not sure the article was saying that women were being dismissed or refused entry into professions in Italy. There were references to a female politician and a female judge who both basically said that the women in those professions choose to look sexy. No one was telling them that they couldn't be in those jobs, or that they had to dress a certain way -- it was their choice.

As for it being difficult for women with children to work outside the home, I would say it's no piece of cake being a working mother in any other part of the world either. That's just the reality of our biology. When you're childless, you can do whatever you like (and I'm sure that's the case in Italy as well). When you have a family to consider, then it all becomes very complicated --- no matter where you live. Maybe the Italians just do a better job of recognising that women cannot really have it all (and those that say they do usually have a couple of other women on the payroll helping them out, like nannies and cleaners). Maybe the rest of us are just deluding ourselves.

I remember, when I was childless, going to a lawyers' convention and meeting with a women's caucus over breakfast. One of the women quipped "If it wasn't for the damn feminists, we'd all be home with our kids." I didn't get it at the time, but now, two kids later, I totally get it.

Maybe the Italians get it too.